(published Spring 2008 in Spread ArtCulture Magazine; photograph by Matthew Montieth)
The name on the door might be David Zwirner’s, but behind the man everyone in the art world is talking about are three savvy women so essential to the gallery’s soaring success that David Zwirner made them partners. Spread ArtCulture joined directors Angela Choon, Bellatrix Hubert, and Hanna Schouwink for an exclusive roundtable discussion.
Lauren Knighton: The gallery’s website states that the focus of the gallery is showing the work of emerging artists. Many of the latest additions to your roster—Chris Ofili, Lisa Yuskavage, Philip-Lorca DiCorcia—hardly fit that description. Is the focus of the gallery changing?
Angela Choon: We need to change the website! When we opened [in 1993], our artists were all emerging. Then the gallery and artists grew together.
Bellatrix Hubert: We have some artists that are more well-known in Europe than over here. But we’re not at all a young gallery.
LK: You have a reputation for being very hands-on with your artists.
AC: One of the gallery’s strong points is that it’s always been artist-centric. I’m always surprised to hear what other galleries don’t do for their artists.
BH: The key is to make sure our artists can work. We don’t bombard them with too much, and we act as a barrier between them and the world. We don’t want them to accept too many shows because then the work gets watered down. We want to make sure they have a good studio, the best possible environment to create work. And we don’t say yes to everything. Every time I get a request, I ask myself if it’s good for the artist’s career, and try not to just be flattered by another commission.
LK: What goes into preparing an artist for an exhibition?
BH: Generally, it’s a two-year process. We’ll go to their studio and start a dialogue, but the artists at this point really know what they’re doing.
AC: Often they have a theme or idea that they want to do. For Luc [Tuyman’s] last exhibition, he wanted to show work about Walt Disney and found utopias, so all the paintings related to that concept.
BH: We never really question the artists; they have total freedom over their shows. We’re not going to say, ‘Oh this painting isn’t good, you can’t show it’.
LK: You each have your own group of artists that you work with. How are artists “matched up” with each of you?
BH: When an artist joins the gallery, we’re all really fair; there’s never been a situation where we’ve fought over anyone. We see which of our personalities best fit with the artist’s.
LK: How does the gallery choose which artists to take on?
Hanna Schouwink: A lot of people, especially mid-career artists, come to us from other very established galleries. So many people want to work with us now; we have to be very critical.
AC: A lot more artists want to work here than we can take on. It’s a nice position to be in.
BH: We decide as a group, we vote. It’s a democracy.
HS: But we can’t veto, only David can veto.
BH: It’s really his decision, ultimately, but we participate.
LK: It’s been a little over a year since the gallery tripled its exhibition space; what has it been like?
BH: Triple work! Triple fun! Triple rich! [laughs] No, it’s been really important, because I believe we have to grow and be a step ahead of the artists. You don’t want these great artists to show in the same space over and over, you want them to be challenged by the environment. It’s great to tell Thomas Ruff that he has two times the space for his new show.
LK: There are endless articles that rank galleries and use competitive language to create a cutthroat portrait of the art world. Do you find it to be as bad as is reported?
HS: I think it’s much friendlier than people think.
BH: Generally, it’s very human—I think it’s the last non-corporate environment.
HS: I always find it really offensive when people say we steal artists [from other galleries].
BH: On the contrary, I feel like we are missing opportunities because we don’t have that kind of mentality. I just heard that Richard Tuttle went to Pace Wildenstein. He’s one of my favorite artists and I was thinking if I had known he was unhappy at Sperone Westwater, I would have loved to offer him a place here. So, like Hanna said, we really wait for the artists to come to us, we’re really respectful of our colleagues.
HS: If there is a rumor that an artist is courting other galleries, then we do something about it. But some people have pigeon-holed us, and it really disturbs me because we act quite ethically here.
LK: People enjoy the sensationalism.
HS: No press ever writes about how artists are kicked out by galleries. It happens all the time, if a certain success is missing… and we have never done that. We support our artists through difficult times.
BH: I think that makes a big difference to an artist who is considering our gallery.
LK: What are some beliefs you held about art that have changed since you entered the business of art?
AC: I never thought I’d work in a commercial gallery. But David’s is quite different from the typical model. Commercial galleries are always looked down upon as the “money-making” venture of the art world, a shop, as opposed to the museums, which are held in very high regard.
'
BH: But we’re the ones taking the risks now. I mean, Jason Rhoades’ Black Pussy installation, no museum would take the risk of showing that. What I find very exciting is that we’re really a new part of the art world, in a way. Historically, if you think of Leo Castelli as the father of the contemporary gallery system, and after him Marian Goodman, and [Larry] Gagosian… [David Zwirner Gallery] has evolved from there; we’re re-defining the system. Galleries were never so involved before. We’re real facilitators.
AC: It’s sort of a “gallerist” versus “dealer” thing.
LK: Those seem to be very loaded words; people tend to be sensitive as to whether they are called a “gallerist” or a “dealer”.
BH: It’s really a problem if you get stuck on that kind of stuff, it limits you. I would hate to say I’m a dealer and not a gallerist, or I’m a gallerist and not a dealer.
HS: It’s hypocritical. If you’re just a gallerist, then there are certain things you cannot do for your artists. We’re expected to be active on the secondary market; if we’re not, we’re considered wimps. It’s important for the sake of your artists to support the market.
LK: So there are a lot of theoretical concerns about the gallery’s function, its legacy, and your roles within that. On top of that, you are part of an art market currently run amok. How do you keep the art itself your primary focus?
AC: The legacy of these artists is where they show and what private or public collections they end up in, after all of us are gone. We try to have the works go into a good institution or place.
BH: It’s the most important thing for the artist, to be in a public arena. When work is in a private collection, you can lose track of it.
HS: Of course there are also private collectors who have very public roles. Someone like Joel Wax, he has a rather small collection but a very good one, and he makes people enthusiastic about the art. People like him are very important, because they talk to the curators.
BH: They’re like diplomats.
LK: What shows were milestones for the gallery?
BH: I thought Neo Rauch’s last exhibition was really important, for him and for the gallery.
HS: I always think of the first Jason Rhoades show. That show was the reason I wanted to work here. The Chris Ofili show was so good and so different from what we expected. Lisa Yuskavage’s first show here was extremely exciting. There’s so many.
BH: The idea with every exhibition is to take the artist to the next level. Christopher Williams’ last show was so important for his career; within two weeks every institution had to own his work. And it’s not like he’s a new artist, he’s been doing very rigorous work since the late 80s.
HS: You start recognizing these moments and it’s very exciting that we can contribute to changes in an artists’ career.
LK: Are there any art movements emerging around the world that you believe in?
BH: Sure, there are, but I don’t know that they’re that interesting. It’s so market-driven right now, it’s really hard to find an authentic voice. There’s a lot of hipsters and—
AC: People getting out of school and trying to get their first show. You used to not be able to do your first New York show until you worked.
BH: Selling out your first solo show is the easiest thing. The problem is the second, third, fourth show. Are people going to continue collecting your work, are institutions going to start collecting your work: those are the challenges.
LK: Describe your personal collections.
HS: We get a lot from our artists—we don’t tell David how much, this is off the record! [laughs] They are incredibly generous, it’s amazing.
BH: It’s nice—after working with them for so long, you might own an early work that you’ve developed a history with.
LK: Where do you see the gallery in five years?
HS: Oh dear.
BH & HS: Not in China.
AC: I’m sure there will be expansion possibilities.
LK: Does that mean opening another location? Or expanding the space on 19th Street even further?
BH: Five years goes super fast. We are already working on shows that will take place five years from now, including retrospectives and big museum shows. There’ll be more exposure for the artists, whether or not the gallery space is bigger.
HS: When we expanded last year, it seemed completely crazy. It seemed like such a huge amount of space and now it’s so normal to me, I can’t even remember what it was like before. But then people who we haven’t seen in over a year come in and they can’t believe it. So in five years—who knows what will happen by then.
No comments:
Post a Comment